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Old Town Debate Tackles Waterfront Redevelopment

At a City Council candidate forum in Old Town on Wednesday night, the first question asked was predictably about the city's plans to develop its riverside.

The issue of riverside redevelopment saw some lively debate at a forum attended largely by Old Town residents and hosted by the Old Town Civic Association at Lyles-Crouch Traditional Academy on Wednesday night.

Candidates debated citizen engagement and the possibility of rezoning some portions of the city’s waterfront to allow hotels. The city in January passed a plan to redevelop its waterfront, but it has not approved a proposed zoning change permitting development such as hotels there.

“I would not rezone the waterfront. You do not need to rezone to gain amenities,” said Republican candidate Bob Wood, who lives near the city’s riverside. “Council can exercise leadership over the process,” adding that council members shouldn’t constantly concede to developers and should be careful not to turn a “gem of a waterfront to generic.”

He later characterized a current Carr Hospitality proposal to put a hotel on the waterfront as “too big” and said it “defied physics.”

Fellow Republican and incumbent Councilman Frank Fannon said the plan must be improved and should be treated “parcel by parcel” to make the best decisions.

Incumbent Councilwoman Alicia Hughes, who is serving a term as an independent but is running as a Republican for the November election, said the waterfront small area plan should not cost the city $3 million. She also advocated developing “parcel by parcel.”

Democrat Allison Silberberg said she did not believe the plan was “visionary enough” and would have liked to see a small, permanent band shell in Oronoco Bay Park.

“We should pause and get it right," she said. "While National Harbor is great to some people, there are thousands of National Harbors. There is only one Old Town.”

She added later that the process should be opened up so “citizens are involved from the outset” and that she would not like to see rezoning of the waterfront.

Libertarian Robert Kraus said the city must stop giving special favors to developers and the plan should be put on hold.

Glenda Davis, who is running as an independent, said the city “tends to think within the box all of the time” and would like to see a more “creative” and “innovative” city. “There are so many options,” she said, adding that she did not see a necessity for more hotels and restaurants on the waterfront.

Democrat John Chapman said the planning process highlights the need to reevaluate how citizens are involved in creating small area plans.

“It’s not about the number of meetings we have, it’s about the quality of those meetings,” he said.

Independent Jermaine Mincey said he does not believe a revote is necessary but the city needs to reach out to the community.

Democrat Tim Lovain, a former council member who is running again, agreed that the process “could have been better” but said the plan improved over time and became balanced. He added that he had concerns with Hughes and Fannon, who both voted against the plan, saying they didn’t get involved with the details but merely voted against it.

Democratic incumbent Del Pepper reminded the audience that she was able to get her fellow council members to reduce the number of allowable hotels from three to two just prior to their final vote and that she “tried hard to reduce the density.”

Justin Wilson, also a former council member running again, said the preservation of the status quo is “not an option.” He said the city had three choices—by-right development that could have led to many townhouses, buy some of the most expensive properties in Alexandria or lastly, engage in a public-private partnership.

“I would have gone with the third choice,” he said, which offers 5.5 acres of open space and $7 million in flood mitigation.

Democratic Councilman Paul Smedberg was not able to attend the debate due to a previously scheduled work commitment. Mayor Bill Euille also did not attend the mayoral debate portion of the evening, leaving independent challenger Andrew Macdonald alone on the stage to field questions from moderator John Porter.

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Katy Cannady October 11, 2012 at 07:56 pm
There is no possibility that anything will ever be built "by right" on the waterfront. The term "by right" means that a landowner can build at that level without getting a special use permit after hearings before the Planning Commission and City Council. The quid pro quo for the easier process (just getting a site plan, no hearings) is that the level of development is much lower than if the owner did the work of developing a more complete development plan and going to the public hearings. On valuable property such as all the parcels proposed for redevelopment on the waterfront, no owner would settle for the lower level of development available by-right. It does not yield enough development to justify the cost of the land. Landowners never volunteer to lose money. I am sure Mr. Wilson, having previously served on City Council, knows this. If an eventual court decision holds that the new waterfront plan was not properly adopted, the permitted uses in that area would be mixed use, with no right to build hotels.
Kathryn Papp October 12, 2012 at 12:28 am
The 5.5 acres of "open space" includes: hotel lobbies, the first floors of restaurants, inner and outer courtyards, all hardscaping around buildings, piers, green roofs on top of hotels and commercial buildings, the perimeters of buildings that are not roadway, tree wells, etc. There is also park land. Picnicing with one's family on a hotel roof, where one is not a guest - but merely a town resident - is a sad thought.
Joseph M. October 12, 2012 at 01:48 am
^This cannot be correct: "The 5.5 acres of "open space" includes: hotel lobbies, the first floors of restaurants, inner...courtyards, all hardscaping around buildings, piers, ....
Do you have a citation or link?
Justin Wilson October 12, 2012 at 04:44 am
Katy: With all due respect, your statements about by-right development, just like those of General Wood at the debate, are demonstrably false.
In fact, we need to look no farther than just up the Waterfront, where a brand new, by-right development project is occurring as we speak: http://oldtownalexandria.patch.com/articles/developer-eya-develops-luxury-waterfront-condos http://www.eya.com/oronoco/ You stated "On valuable property such as all the parcels proposed for redevelopment on the waterfront, no owner would settle for the lower level of development available by-right." Perhaps you should discuss your ROI analysis of the pro forma's of by-right development on the Waterfront with EYA.
Andrew Macdonald October 12, 2012 at 12:42 pm
CAAWPS analysis of the City's waterfront plan showed that it would result in less then then 5.5 acres of open space and that a great deal of this open space was not that that useable. I can send you a copy of the report if you would like, which was prepared by a group of citizens.
As for Mr. Wilson's point that somehow we are worse off if we accept the existing by-right zoning -- which was approved for a reason -- I would say that this misses the real point. That more development is not necessarily going to make things better if the current level is already problematic. The role of the Council should be, through strong community-centerd public policy decisions, and negotiation and vision, to craft a plan that will result in the highest and best use of a scarce resource - land. More town homes -- which are more likely to be built then hotels -- are not going to create a more public waterfront, or one that will help sustain a historic town. Developers want to make a fair return on their investment and we want to make a lasting return for the city as a whole. If we agree to higher density without thinking long term, we are not doing our job. Mayor Euille has put developers in charge of our future and is using the by right argument (and revenue needs of other programs like schools) as an excuse to accept more development. The goal should be a plan that is right for Alexandria, and will generate revenue that sustains our sense of place and brand.
Katy Cannady October 12, 2012 at 12:52 pm
In the case of those new condos near the North Terminal, I am sure the developers got a special use permit. The information on that would be in the records of the City's planning department. Those condos are within the development envelope of the currently en force master plan. I did not attend the public hearings or follow it closely, but I am sure there was a special use permit with some conditions which always come into play on a big project. Anyone who cares to do some research of city records, not newspaper stories, would find it.
Justin Wilson October 12, 2012 at 01:23 pm
Katy: Again, that's false. The article I linked to explained it well:
"Unlike some other development projects throughout the city, this conversion from office to residential is "by right" and does not require review and approval by the Planning Commission or City Council, according to the city’s Planning and Zoning Department. However, the building’s transformation requires city staff administrative approval of a grading plan and building permits. City staff plans to allow landscaping alterations and grading changes for creating street-level access to the lobby. “The city’s ability to require additional public benefits envisioned in the Waterfront Small Area Plan, such as improvements to Oronoco Bay Park and an art wall, is limited because of the administrative process,” according to an email from Planning and Zoning. “However, the applicant may wish to volunteer some of these improvements.”"
Gail October 12, 2012 at 01:44 pm
Katy - Congratulations on your graduation from law school! Apparently you went to the same law school as she-who-must-not-be-named. Good luck on the bar exam!
Jon Rosenbaum October 12, 2012 at 03:19 pm
Silverberg keeps calling for a small band shell and"vision". The first already is in the waterfront plan adopted by Council. This duplicates, to some extent,the bandstand behind the Torpedo Factory - that is never used! As for "vision", a word Andrew keeps using without specifics - this is political pap.
Dennis Auld October 12, 2012 at 03:25 pm
Andrew, can you clarify for me your statement " More town homes -- which are more likely to be built then hotels -- are not going to create a more public waterfront, or one that will help sustain a historic town. " I agree that townhomes built would close off the waterfront. If not hotels, then the only other use put forward in the CAAWP plan and City Plan is to purchase the properties and make parks. As was indicated in the City's analysis of the CAAWP plan (see: http://alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/planning/info/Waterfront/CAAWP%20Analysis%20Report%20of%20the%20Citizens.pdf ) purchasing the properties for parks is unrealistic. So, what are you advocating for these properties?
Katy Cannady October 12, 2012 at 04:32 pm
Since no one dislikes what was done with the steelworkers building and it conforms to the small area plan in place today, I did not follow its progress. It is very rare for a commercial site to change to residential. Not getting a special use permit for a building of that size is also very rare. Mr. Wilson honed in on the one available example that followed that course in some time. As for not being a lawyer, if you attend enough planning commission and council public hearings and listen to what is being said, you learn some of the applicable zoning code rules. Admission to the bar is not a requirement for learning some law, just a requirement for practicing law.
Mark Mueller October 12, 2012 at 08:25 pm
Yes the EYA/Sheetmetal worker project is being developed by-right and I believe that it is a fantastic project. Mr. Wilson spoke of by-right development at the debate as if the sky were falling. He did so in front of a very knowledgeable audience who were likely quite skeptical of his claim (given their knowledge and his track record on council). If by-right development were the beast he claims it to be, Mr. Wilson would be wise to share what issues he has with by-right development in the context of the Oronoco project. That project happens to have already sold 33% of their units and they haven’t even broke ground.. I hear David Speck is buying a unit there. As pertains to Katy’s comment, she was mistaken about the Oronoco project going through the SUP process. However, I believe Katy is correct in her statements with regard to the Robinson Terminal properties. I heard that EYA expressed interest in RT-South but the asking price was completely outlandish. In such a scenario as the later, Katy’s statement is spot on.
oldtowner October 12, 2012 at 10:27 pm
I'm getting tired of Allison Silberberg implying Old Town might become a National Harbor. That is a total exaggeration. There is no way in hell the Alexandria waterfront is going to become a National Harbor. It's like a scare tactic on her part and she should stop using that comparison.
McBrinn October 12, 2012 at 11:30 pm
Umm, no it's not an exaggeration. I remember when Fords landing was open waterfront accessible to all. Hell, I used to catch Bass there. Now you can't even park in that enclave unless you have a sticker.
Great job keeping the waterfront open!
Dennis Auld October 12, 2012 at 11:34 pm
I have no idea what you are saying here. Instead, let me ask you a question. The current owners of the three properties on the waterfront, are you and Katy saying that the economic incentive to build high priced townhomes is not there? unless they apply for an SUP?
Jon Rosenbaum October 13, 2012 at 12:05 am
You are correct that those town houses should not be the model for the three undeveloped sites. But Silverberg, who seems to be running with Republican support, definitely is adopting the absurd position that the waterfront plan will mimic National Harbor.
OT insider October 13, 2012 at 12:20 am
What are you talking about? The waterfront IS open to all around Ford's Landing. Yeah so you can't park in the residential area. But you can walk or bike around it anytime (if you don't live in the neighborhood just park on Union street). If you hate Ford's it's obvious you're against ANY development. Sorry but I'm sick of the aluminum sided warehouses. It's time for change.
Katy Cannady October 13, 2012 at 06:59 pm
I have been saying all along that the three parcels in the waterfront plan, the two Robinson terminals and the Cummings and Turner properties, are never going to be developed by right, because the by right level in almost every case is much lower than what can be built after going through the special use permit process. The zoning in place right now calls for mixed use development. So I would expect some commercial and some residential unless the courts rule in favor of the city government and not the Board of Zoning Appeals in the rezoning case.
As for who has Republican support and who does not, yesterday I drove along a Rosemont Street just off Russell (between Russell and Commonwealth) and saw a home with both a Romney sign and a Euille sign out front. I was surprised at first but then after I thought about it, I realized there may well be a number of Romney supporters who also support the way in while Mayor Euille has run the city for the last nine years. Supporting both would not really represent any conflict or inconsistency.
oldtowner October 13, 2012 at 10:55 pm
ah, yes McBrinn: I also remember when that old deserted, empty plant was down @ what is now Fords Landing and when all those old wooden pilings were sticking up out of the water down there....I also remember when there was a rendering plant up on the waterfront in north old town.....So do you want to revert what "used to be?" Change is inevitable. We can prepare and plan for the best. Thx to Jon R and OT Insider for their insight. And again, there will never be a National Harbor on the Old Town waterfront....scare tactics.
oldtowner October 13, 2012 at 10:57 pm
gosh, Ms Cannady....are you saying Romney is really a Dem? :)
Chip Carlin October 13, 2012 at 10:58 pm
....On the permanent bandshell in Oronoco Bay Park....not needed. That park is not that big, and I think it should remain 100% green space. Less structures is better. The Parks & Rec. Dept's " portable band stand " works just fine for those times when live music/dance/speakers are part of a program. I like the idea in the WF SAP where tidal vegetation is proposed, native aquatic plants. Like the absolutely lovely area at the north east end of the boardwalk near the TC rowing facility. As for the expanded Waterfront Park, I have long lobbied for more green, trees and plants, and less structures and hardscape. One of the loveliest public walks in Old Town parks is that meandering path at the north end of waterfront Park, running from the Strand to the river promenade. I want relief from the visual and sensory intensity of the streets, and am all for beautiful green spaces. Our Parks & Rec. Dept. does
very nice plantings, let's give them a bigger palette.
McBrinn October 14, 2012 at 05:02 pm
" I also remember when that old deserted, empty plant was down @ what is now Fords Landing"
Speak for yourself. Those abandoned buildings and vacant lots were me and my childhood friends fantastic playground. It was awesome. Imagine having huge old warehouse to go exploring in. I climbed that old water tower on more than one occassion. I think I even have a box of trinkets in the attic from things I found in the old buildings.
Jon Rosenbaum October 14, 2012 at 06:00 pm
Perhaps you you should consider moving to Detroit. I think you would be very happy living surrounded by abandoned factories and empty lots. As for me, I look forward to the waterfront being revitalized with lots new parkland for passive enjoyment.
oldtowner October 14, 2012 at 06:48 pm
to McBrinn: We all have various childhood memories....some pleassant, some not. That does not mean things should never change. By your logic, we should just let buildings deteriorate and not replace or improve them. Not such a great idea.
Haunches October 14, 2012 at 11:56 pm
She is saying taht Euille is so supportive of well connected business interests he would be at home in the national GOP. He would.
Mark Mueller October 15, 2012 at 01:38 am
Here is an update for everyone on the status of the waterfront litigation: http://www.alexandrianews.org/2012/10/court-denies-citys-motion-for-summary-judgment-in-waterfront-case/
paul October 16, 2012 at 02:54 pm
You are absolutely right oldtowner. Saying that the Alexandria Waterfront is going to look like National Harbor is ridiculous. This type of "scare tactic" reminds me of those (we all know who they are) that were falsely saying that the Cities plan is to "line the waterfront with high rises" Nothing could be further from the truth
paul October 16, 2012 at 05:03 pm
Your right Katy, wether the Cities Waterfront Plan is accepted or not, what we can plan on is that these properties will be developed as mixed use. Hotel or not. As far as the height is concerned , look at the number of townhouses and commercial properties that have been erected in the last 20 or so years here on the Union Street corridor. They are between four and five stories. We can only expect that our neighbors will do the same.

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MLB June 18, 2013 at 04:51 pm
Thanks for the info Doug!
D @ D C. June 19, 2013 at 09:29 am
Doug, Thank you!! Watching our neighborhood and speaking up helps us all. If we ignore the kidsRead More they will think we don't care and bring more trouble to our area. The only way to keep our community safe is by us all posting like Doug.
Learn how to research your family history!
Drew Hansen (Editor) June 19, 2013 at 06:00 am
Where is this even being held?
Drew Hansen (Editor) June 19, 2013 at 12:36 pm
Looks like it's at the Athenaeum: http://www.nvfaa.org/events/starting-genealogy-lisa-stansbury
Bea Porter May 22, 2013 at 02:38 pm
Very well said. A new building will not bring up the test scores, and its not the fault of theRead More parents. Dr. Sherman changes staff so frequently it makes sense that the scores are not improving. Jefferson-Houston needs to have consistency in staff, and not the turnovers that it has had in the last several years. These students can achieve, they can do well, but they need to have consistent structure, and teachers that are willing to teach them in the manner they can learn best. Take these 350 students and reintegrate them into other schools that are achieving, then see them rise as the stars they are. Stop keeping them segregated, stop the under achievement. Stop this new building.
Lee Hernly May 22, 2013 at 03:21 pm
While I agree with the commenters and the writer on their comments, I do suggest that, if you haveRead More not done so already, do take a tour of the school to see the changes taking place. It's hard to see how the kids can learn anything there at the school given the current open classroom environment. Having lived here all my life, I seem to recall as well that at one point in time, Lyles Crouch was in a similar situation like Jefferson Houston currently is. Lyles Crouch has turned itself around so who's to say that Jefferson Houston won't? Dr. Sherman though, needs to go.
Foo Bar May 25, 2013 at 04:33 pm
As I remember, Lyles-Crouch did not bootstrap itself but got help from Herb Berg, the superintendentRead More before Rebecca Parry. In the '99 redistricting he rezoned Lyles-Crouch's attendance area so that a number of disadvantaged kids who formerly went there now go to Jefferson-Houston.
Jon Rosenbaum May 23, 2013 at 03:10 pm
I find myself agreeing with the writer for once. This is a quality of life and security issue.Read More Actually 60 lights were out a few months ago from the river to the Metro station. TE&S does a survey only once a year. Otherwise its Director says it is up to citizens to report lights that are out. I report light outages on my block, but it is unreasonable to expect citizens to report each light number out on a commercial street. Then there is the issue of repair time. Last fall it took three months to repair a damaged light in the 100 block of N. Saint Asaph Street.
Defy Libtards May 23, 2013 at 03:49 pm
The city is sooooooooooooo boring. Why can't we just continue with the Hippie v. ConservativeRead More bashing; it's been too long since somebody has called me a (racist) because I like small government.
Scot May 23, 2013 at 03:57 pm
Not enough anger in this op ed, please revise. Clap*Clap*Clap Also, why is everyone typing when weRead More could all be out robbing banks? Apparently it is the new cool "thing" in Alexandria.
Sherry Henderson April 30, 2013 at 02:43 pm
Gail, I would say that past elected officials have been very much to blame for the problems with theRead More Alexandria City Public School system, especially the old regime who mismanaged the administration of those schools for the past few years. One can say that they most certainly weren't 'the brightest bulbs in the box'. But the honeymoon is over for the current Alexandria School Board and the Alexandria City Council to grab the bull by the horns and work to solidly fix Alexandria City Public Schools. I understand that a very small percentage of families in Alexandria have children, as the city is geared to newlyweds or people who either don't want or can't afford to have children. Many people move out of Alexandria by the time their children reach the age to go to school because of the low scores that Alexandria City Public Schools have in comparison to great schools in both neighboring Fairfax and Arlington Counties. Getting back to your comment that there are 'entrenched administrators', they need to be publicly outed for their incompetence and sent packing. It amazes me how many elected officials boast how great it is to live in the City of Alexandria, yet they have a glaring problem with Alexandria City Public Schools and are seemingly incompetent to fix them. This isn't a political issue, but as a Democrat, I'm very embarrassed by, as I've noted, the 'good ole boy' and 'good ole girl', wink-wink, back-scratching politics that go on in Alexandria City Hall. Disgusting.
Gail April 30, 2013 at 03:31 pm
We have an almost entirely brand new school board. They were stuck with a big mess. They were onlyRead More installed four months ago. Give them some time. This won't be easy. They are hampered by budget issues right now, existing contracts, etc. These new comers are NOT part of the "ole boy/girl" network. Karen Graaf, Patricia Hennig and Bill Campbell are NOT the "old network" at all. Kelly Carmichael Booz and Chris Lewis were politically active in the city but they are also most definitely NOT part of the "old" network. Marc Williams is the leftover from those days and for reasons I don't understand, he is very popular with parents in the George Mason district where he lives. Sherman has been a disaster, but the fact is that his hiring was actually spearheaded by former school board chair Yvonne Folkerts, who is a Republican. The Dems did not create that particular monster but we were somewhat responsible for allowing the monster to eat the city. I've been screaming for his firing since 2008 and there is a nice bottle of champagne chilling in my fridge for the day he gets his walking papers.
Sherry Henderson April 30, 2013 at 04:25 pm
The Alexandria City Council, except for our great Vice Mayor, Allison Silberberg, is definitely allRead More run by the very entrenched 'good ole boy' and 'good old girl' network that has completely strangled Alexandria politics for years. Many Democrats that I know are completely turned off by our local elected officials, who, despite their good intentions, continuously embarrass us by their votes and misconstrued thoughts that they're doing something right for the future of our city. Alexandria is the true 'banana republic' of D.C. area politics, because those who, uhm, 'govern' us have a "see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil" mantra to themselves, especially Justin Wilson, who loves to overly pontificate as he drones on until he foams at the mouth during his lengthy dissertations that are as mindless as he is. And Justin, and the rest of the politburo that we have seated at Alexandria City Hall are hell bent to run the city any way they like. As a Democrat, I know that we can sure do better than what we've got in office now, and there are a ton of great forward-thinking progressives who would be much better than the stooges who are in Alexandria City Hall now, but the 'political elite' throws up obstacles to keep themselves in power. That in itself is very shameful, but since the City of Alexandria is so 'provincial' in its 'my way or the highway' governance, we're always doomed to inefficiency in comparison to Fairfax and Arlington Counties. We definitely deserve better.
Dan Sehnal April 24, 2013 at 06:34 pm
46 pounds per household sounds like a lot per household. It would be interesting to know where theRead More number came from and how it was computed. Although anecdotal, a quick inspection of the 26 homes on our street in old town, I would guess we are talking about 10-15 pounds per household. That's a big differential. Is business and/or industrial waste included in that number? If so, I can better understand. Thanks, D. Sehnal Quay St.
Michael Clem April 25, 2013 at 02:30 pm
The 46 pounds per household is somewhat inflated because it includes weight from Alexandria'sRead More schools and City government buildings. But the number is not that far off. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency estimates that an average household generates 1.2 tons of trash a year. That's about 46 lbs. a week. People who recycle all that they can and do not have much yard waste will generate much less. You must be one of those households. Great job!
Nate McKenzie April 30, 2013 at 05:45 pm
Michael, What is your opinion of municipal composting programs? Would a municipal compostingRead More program make sense in Alexandria (not sure of benefits when we are already incinerating)? Can municipal composting be cost effective for us? Thanks, Nate
Concerned Virginian April 23, 2013 at 02:17 am
OldTowner, The city may be compare its pay/benefits with other jurisdictions, but that doesn't meanRead More they do anything to make them more fair and equitable. I provided a detailed comparison of Alexandria Police and a neighboring county, one full of facts and actual logic. I notice you didn't respond. You probably finally realized that your statements are incorrect and, to date, have not been based on research and facts. Where is your response? Then there is your "intangibles" and the city tends to be "Safer" than others. Tell that to the officer who was maliciously wounded by an ex-convict on Christmas day. Tell that to the officers who were fired at near police headquarters and had to return fire, mortally wounding someone. Tell that to the officer who got shot in the head. Here's an idea--Don't post anymore unless you have something factual and correct to say. Let's try that.
oldtowner April 24, 2013 at 10:14 pm
to Concerned: So get a job somewhere else if you don't like working in Alexandria. I certainlyRead More value the services of our police and fire employees....I also value the services of many other city employees. Regarding the incident on Duke Street, no report on the incident has been released, so we really don't know who fired first....Most assume the deceased did, but we really don't know. Our police dept is not well-known for releasing details about incidents. And all hope for the best recovery for Ofc Laboy. His unfortunate injury has nothing to do with the pay Alexandria officers receive. You really haven't added anything of value to the conversation. Everybody always wants to be paid more and have better benefits (that they don't have to pay for); that's a fact of life everywhere.
Concerned Virginian April 29, 2013 at 02:15 am
Oldtowner, I love working in and for Alexandria, but I will also fight for fairness and equity. AndRead More I will continue to counter people like you who intentionally make incorrect statements. You say I haven't added anything of value to the conversation? I have provided hard statistics as well as anecdotal evidence to back up my claims. All you have said is "Go check your facts. I haven't had time to do research myself, but will". It is you that haven't added anything valuable. I'm still waiting for a fact-based (I know, a shocker for you) response to the salary information I provided regarding us and Arlington. What have YOU added to this conversation? (Hint--your false statements and incorrect opinions aren't valuable)